Curse

Engel the Fallen · Nov 10, 2006, 02:20 AM // 02:20

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Originally Posted by Pro-Monk

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the Favor System and I hope Anet doesn't change it. To think that Anet "owes" you access to these areas just because you bought the game is ludicrous. I suppose they owe you a perfect Crystalline Sword too....lol.

I see WoW in your future.

Be a great marketing tool for ANET I think. Put right on the game box that some areas of the game may be inaccessible due to your region of play.

I mean I sure would love more games to have area that for reasons beyond my control that I cannot access.

Does-it-Matter · Nov 10, 2006, 02:29 AM // 02:29

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Originally Posted by Kakumei

I suppose I should go ahead and welcome you to the Internet, because it's apparent you've never been here before. Overdone "leetspeak" is a common method to display the idiocy of a statement--one I don't usually use, but it seemed appropriate at the time. I'm sorry you disagree.

Oh I agree, its often used in such situations. The same as "omglolz!111!111one11" or what have you is used to over-emphasize someone's reaction. Still, as a reader of a rational arguement, when I see that, it pulls focus away from the point and makes me associate the debator with a more child-like mentality. I never said it was a "illegal" approach in any means, just not a good one to my view.

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Or, you know, to see if other people feel the same, and perhaps a change to the system is in order? It's not like Anet has never ever listened to players before.

Its a reward to a whole server for competetative play. ANet has said their are not planning to change Elite missions in Cantha, nor this. (Annecdotal for now, I'm pressed for time so not going to gather quotes.)

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Slippery slopes have no place in a rational debate.

I'm glad you agree, but I was referencing a previous arguement and mind-set towards those opposed to the current Favor method.

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There's nothing wrong with having a prerequisite to be able to do high-level content. There's a lot wrong with that prerequisite being something completely unrelated to the high-level content in question.

You fight a battle of champions to gain the attention of the Gods, and as a result, said Gods allow you into their realm. How is that unrelated?

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America used to have favor constantly, the way Europe does now. I said it was unfair then, and I say it's unfair now. It's a needless and useless system.

Those more skilled/consistent at HA get the related reward, that's not unfair, that's cause and effect.

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Add Korea to that list. That assumption is false--there is no balance. Europe dominates, America a distant second, and the other three rarely, if ever, take favor.

Ah Korea, I knew I forgot one. Thanks!

It only takes eight players to win HA (or one/two and Heros/hench, but I digress). I know each server has at least eight players. From the results of the GW Ladder it seems that the better players in said servers simply choose to do other things than HA with their time.

Those servers have several options. Switch servers; while yes this puts them at a disadvantage in language and friends, they do gain their access to non-essential content. Form a team, or grab hero/hench. Or finally, not have access to non-essential content because they don't choose to persue it.

If exclusive content is made, obviously people will be excluded. While this may be "unfair" it is not mechanically or systematically wrong.

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This is also an idiotic argument. You, a heavy PvEer, want to go visit the Underworld. Oh, you can't--you have to go get good enough at PvP not only to take Halls, but to hold it five times in a row. Not interested? Tough!

If you are unwilling to do the work, why do you feel you should be privy to the rewards?

You, a heavy videogamer want to play videogames and eat food, etc. Oh, you can't--your last electricity bill is two months over due, you have to not only look for a job, but work their too! Not interested? Tough.

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I was waiting for someone to compare this to real life. The difference between real life and a game--this is a game. Rules can be put into place and enforced in order to make sure it's fair.

Rules CAN be put in to place, not NEED to be. If ANet wanted to make an elitest (remember, don't knee-jerk to arrogant!) and exclusive area, why can't they?

lg5000 · Nov 10, 2006, 02:36 AM // 02:36

Has anyone considered that for the sake of the story line overall the favour system is correct?

No, I'm not going to explain what I mean, I lost my ability to put it into english! But someone please look at the overall storyline and tell me how stupid it would be to have the 'favour of the gods' all the time.

Kakumei · Nov 10, 2006, 02:45 AM // 02:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Does-it-Matter

Oh I agree, its often used in such situations. The same as "omglolz!111!111one11" or what have you is used to over-emphasize someone's reaction. Still, as a reader of a rational arguement, when I see that, it pulls focus away from the point and makes me associate the debator with a more child-like mentality. I never said it was a "illegal" approach in any means, just not a good one to my view.

I agree, it's unnecessary, and I rarely use it--and in retrospect, I shouldn't have used it when I did.

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Its a reward to a whole server for competetative play. ANet has said their are not planning to change Elite missions in Cantha, nor this. (Annecdotal for now, I'm pressed for time so not going to gather quotes.)

Actually, a month or so after Factions was released, Anet did say that they were going to implement alternate entry for Elite missions. This never happened--I assume the rampant ferrying that occurred led them to believe it was no longer a problem that needed to be addressed.

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You fight a battle of champions to gain the attention of the Gods, and as a result, said Gods allow you into their realm. How is that unrelated?

The flavor works, yes. That doesn't make it fair or right.

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Those more skilled/consistent at HA get the related reward, that's not unfair, that's cause and effect.

The reward isn't related. That's the crux. Succeeding at high level PvP absolutely should not influence the ability for other people to access high-level PvE.

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It only takes eight players to win HA (or one/two and Heros/hench, but I digress). I know each server has at least eight players. From the results of the GW Ladder it seems that the better players in said servers simply choose to do other things than HA with their time.

Six, now, though I see your point. Still, many people have little to no desire to do PvP at all, much less HA. They just want to visit the Fissure or Underworld, but they can't due to the entirely unfair system that is in place.

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If exclusive content is made, obviously people will be excluded. While this may be "unfair" it is not mechanically or systematically wrong.

So drop the exclusive part. I don't see the problem with making it open to everyone.

Cjlr · Nov 10, 2006, 02:51 AM // 02:51

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Originally Posted by dansamy

I didn't say you should stop complaining. I love how people read beyond what I write and make assumptions. It seems to happen a lot and it makes me concerned for the reading comprehension level of the average poster.

You said: People complained. You added: Nothing changed. So I assumed you meant there was no point complaining. Whoops?

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Originally Posted by Does-it-Matter

While I understand where you're going, for something like this its probably best to keep it either to scale or stay with abstracts.

It was mostly a piece of crap. But hey, hyperbole sure is fun. And since you understand where I'm going, I guess it could be called successful.

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Although your example has several more "teams" than necissary and I believe this could be used as an exaggeration to the point. If there was only four states with four teams it doesn't look as "impossible."

Aren't there five regions? America, Europe, Korea, Japan, and Taiwan? That isn't really important, but still...

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Third, "starting your own college and forming a national championship team" is not to scale with any of the other elements. Again a perhaps accidential case of exaggeration to prove the point.

Well, it is an exaggeration, obviously. But at the same time, gaining access to the Gods' realms isn't some five minute job. You need a team, and you need to fight the whole way up. Then you need to hold on for four rounds. This takes time. Then, and only then, can you actually go back, get a team together, and go to the UW/Fow. The point is that you're looking at several hours here.

The main difference between football and GW is that by winning the ProBowl, players don't earn anything for other people, and I don't get rewarded if the local boys trounce the neighbours.

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Let's get down to the heart of the matter and stop mixing words.

FoW/UW is an elitist reward for excellence. It is NOT a required component of the game (similarly as easter eggs are not required, but appreciated and at times coveted parts of other video games.)

It is a reward, shared with those from similar backgrounds (servers).

If everyone automatically had access to it, it would not be an award, and it would certainly not be elitest or status-worthy, it would simply be additional content (e.g. Sorrow's Furnance).

Yes, it is a reward for excellence. But it's one person's excellence and another person's reward. That's my issue.

Yes, it is exclusive. But why? Why should one person's (well, six people's) actions determine what unrelated people's actions are limited to?

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We can group this with Elite (there's that word again...) Missions in Cantha. Whichever Guild/Alliance controls that respective town has access to it (reward for excellence) but they are likewise able to "ferry" others along (in a similar method as all persons on the same server are allowed into the Gods' Realms.)

If said Alliance does not wish to ferry others, that is their choice, their name is on the door. They won the reward. Or, if another alliance gains control and they are not ferrying, it is a function of the game.

If you are dissatisfied with your inability to get into FoW/UW it is up to you to try and change that. It is the same as being told "no" to a querey of possible ferrying.

You want in? Gain control of the town. You want in? Get favor.

Again, they won something. But who did they win it for? Themselves? A bunch of other people they couldn't care less about?

Time to call it a night, I'm afraid. Unfortunately, that means no time for proofreading. So forgive the errors I'm sure I made.

=HT=Ingram · Nov 10, 2006, 03:10 AM // 03:10

Naw the favor system is to encourage participation in the mostly reward less PvP part of the game. Without it not many would care to go there at all. By having your Region Win more often you get favor of gods and allow you and your allies and region to go to UW and Fissure. There you reap your rewards for wining in HoH. Well thats just my opinion.

I always felt the Vault needed the 2 avatars there to offer access to UW and Fissure for free if the team wanted to go... All be it that would mean PvP players would get to go to UW and Fissure. so maybe thats not a great idea, but its a thought... The vault is so boring waiting around for the next teams to get there... it defiantly needs something... ANYTHING...

tomcruisejr · Nov 10, 2006, 03:20 AM // 03:20

Favor System is obsolete. HAers dont play it for the favor anyway.

Solution: open underworld at all times, remove favor system from HA and remove the HoH winner global spam message ( who cares if Teh Wammo
Pve's team won a battle in HoH and keeps the favor of the gods for Kazakhstan?). everybody paid for the the content and there is only limited server change allowed for each account.

Cataclysm · Nov 10, 2006, 03:30 AM // 03:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by =HT=Ingram

Naw the favor system is to encourage participation in the mostly reward less PvP part of the game. Without it not many would care to go there at all. By having your Region Win more often you get favor of gods and allow you and your allies and region to go to UW and Fissure. There you reap your rewards for wining in HoH. Well thats just my opinion.

I always felt the Vault needed the 2 avatars there to offer access to UW and Fissure for free if the team wanted to go... All be it that would mean PvP players would get to go to UW and Fissure. so maybe thats not a great idea, but its a thought... The vault is so boring waiting around for the next teams to get there... it defiantly needs something... ANYTHING...

The Vault?

The US does get Faction eventually, but its so late at night that it doesnt matter. I have to get up and go to work, I have things to do, I cant be up at 2:00 AM waiting to go on UW farms
I love Alaska BTW

Quid Pro Quo · Nov 10, 2006, 03:36 AM // 03:36

Sounds like its working well to me. People want favor so they are trying to get it.

If there was no bonus to having favor then people wouldn't want it as bad and it would feel like you were accomplishing as much when you won it.

Thallandor · Nov 10, 2006, 03:53 AM // 03:53

/beats on dead horse once more.

PvE reward/area access should never have had anything to do with PvP at all in the first place.

Blame the dumb person who suggested this when GW was made who though this would enhance the "Wars of the World(region servers)" concept via granting the Favor of the Gods for the region for winning HoH X_X. Another one of those PvP is PvE endgame BS concepts imho.

Alt F Four · Nov 10, 2006, 04:14 AM // 04:14

I love the arguement of 'I PAID FOR THIS SO I SHOULD GET IT'. Actually, all you paid for is the access key and the box it came in. If you can't get into FoW 24/7, that's tough. Do something else.

MMSDome · Nov 10, 2006, 04:19 AM // 04:19

as a favor deprived American I myself can safely say we dont need a enw favor system. We just need to get our s*** together and start winning halls and begin to use builds other then starburst, iway, and dual smite. Us Americans are all about cookie cutter builds, we suck. We cant go around complaining, i mean look at Japan, Taiwan, China, and Korea. Those places never have favor! Quit the moaning and groaning and go win halls if you want it.

Gli · Nov 10, 2006, 04:22 AM // 04:22

Favor definitely needs to be changed. I mean, I can't visit the Temple of the Ages without those shiny god statue graphics blinding my sleep-deprived eyes anymore, no matter what time I log on.

It's 5:22 am over here, why the hell do we still have favor?

TelephoneNP · Nov 10, 2006, 06:18 AM // 06:18

Spoiler:

Change your account to European or play more PvP.

Fixed.

The Prince · Nov 10, 2006, 06:31 AM // 06:31

The argument that UW/FOW is a reward for excellence and an elite area for those people who excel is complete BS. If that were true then only those who won Halls would be able to access those regions, not everyone in their regional server. Halls isnt like a prerequisite quest to doing UW/FOW-its a separate part of the game for those who like competetive play, whereas FOW/UW are areas that are high-level PVE areas for those that like a different sort of play style/challenge. Making victory by other people a prerequisite to enter the other is ridiculous. Itd be like if only guilds whose faction controlled the most territory (luxon/kurzick) determined who was allowed into Halls in the first place.. Right now its a reward for having the most HA guilds in your region and thus having favor most of the time. Should America/Korea/Taiwan/Japan be punished by having content denied because they dont choose to PvP or because there simply arent enough PvPers in those regions to be able to hold favor? The system is unbalanced and unfair and does need to change.

Gaia_Hunter · Nov 10, 2006, 07:04 AM // 07:04

Its the usual.

PPl create a game, then believe ppl around the world that mostly have no knowledge of each other, will be able, by some miracle, work for common goals, just because if they are playing the same game they must have the same/similar goals.

Favor was supposed to work, if you were actually be able to work as a Guild, ie, have a PvP section, a GvG section, an AB section, an PvE farming section, that could help PvP players unlock skills/items and/or support them with weapons/armor.

You will be lucky to find a guild that actually have active members that play PvE together, much less one that have a TS server and the logistics to actually compete in such diverse environments.

Guilds with that kind of capability are extremly rare, because is extremly hard to unite ppl that dont know each other/have different cultural backgrounds/ different ages, to work as a goddamn ELITE ARMY, to make that happen.

And how the hell do you find these ppl? By random chance? By saying "Who the hell is gosu/hardcore?" in the chat?

Im from Europe, so I dont have this problem now, but I can usually see some specific guilds like KFC/MATH and others from America and, yes, even from Japan or Korea get favour, and I bet they have farmer groups ready to go in the minute they get favour.

Expecting this on a large scale is a clear indication of being out of touch with reality.

You can reply, "look, some can, go and do it for yourself". Sure, but first just try it and do it yourself as I bet you are just reaping the rewards from others work.

Sure make it more difficult for those that not have the favour, make their drops be worse, make the enemies in there be stronger, allow only entrance for small periods, whatever.

PPl are not asking for everything for free or whatnot, they just want a chance, as small is it may be, to without depending on other ppl, do all things in the game, because if its only for some, there is no point in being there. I mean, even an harcore gamer that spent 12 hours per day playing can get into Fow if their area dont have favour.

The game is also supposed to be played with human parties, but most likely you have played a significant portion of the game with parties of henchies or with a good number of them in those parties. But you can still do prety much all Cooperative Mission with henchies/heroes, no matter how difficult they are.

And the Continental Areas arent balanced. Europe is by far the largest, specially because they have an active Time Window larger than most, because they attract some Middle East/Asian countries and Europe have enough of a pro-gamer/hardcore attitude. Korea is just small in terms of playing hours time. Taiwan and Japan are even worse, as they have less of a pro-gamer mindset than korea.

America could be huge, but no to small pro-gamer community, and Central and South America dont contribute much.

LagunaCid · Nov 10, 2006, 07:19 AM // 07:19

Am I the only one that thinks that this system has no problem?
Look, its that simple.
Its an elite content.
Its elite for a REASON.
People at HoH fight for favour AND (notice the big and in caps) fame. The winning HoH team adquires access to the elite area. The team and his server. Hey, if you are complaining that this is leeching off the work of others, just ask them to make only the winning team get access then. Dont whine.
Point is. Its an elite area. It is INTENDED to be hard to enter.
Damn.
Im amazed how people arent bitching how you have to do quests to finish the game.

The Prince · Nov 10, 2006, 07:28 AM // 07:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by LagunaCid

Am I the only one that thinks that this system has no problem?
Look, its that simple.
Its an elite content.
Its elite for a REASON.
People at HoH fight for favour AND (notice the big and in caps) fame. The winning HoH team adquires access to the elite area. The team and his server. Hey, if you are complaining that this is leeching off the work of others, just ask them to make only the winning team get access then. Dont whine.
Point is. Its an elite area. It is INTENDED to be hard to enter.
Damn.
Im amazed how people arent bitching how you have to do quests to finish the game.

Im not complaining because i have to progress through the game to lvl up etc, thats a completely unrelated argument. the point is that PvP shouldnt determine what you can and cannot access in PvE. That would be like making it so that if your guild leader hadnt ascended you couldnt do Halls-your ability to access PvP content being reliant on someone elses achievement in PvE.

Gun Pierson · Nov 10, 2006, 07:30 AM // 07:30

I supported another topic about this subject so I might aswell support this one.

The fact that PVP play is needed to unlock PVE content is a contradiction that goes beyond me.

It also increases racism.

Oh btw I'm on euro server so I don't complain, I can get in every day and I don't PVP. So far the argument to pvp for it.

I just think about my fellow gamer in Japan or Taiwan who would like to enjoy these two wonderful areas too. That's something else than some of you egoistic players who just think about yourselves and come with the argument to pvp for it. A real pve player doesn't give a dam about the pvp part of the game.

Turn it around and just imagine, what if a pvp player can only access halls if he/she talks with the fow crafter, time and time again. So we can say pve for it noob. Would be fun no?

jenny2 · Nov 10, 2006, 07:37 AM // 07:37

lol some of these arguments are so dumb...

some ppl just want everything on a silver tablet
"hey i paid for all content"...i dont want to play through all guildwars to get the best greens and best armor please give me everything at the start ?!

thats what most people say with their statements...indirectly.

just take it as it is.

FOW / UW are special / elite content (just like the elite missions in factions)

just that there is no ally "holding" a city that grants access to UW / FOW

here it is the whole nation / country holding it ...

but anyways just another crying thread

voting for -> *close*